tank/filter/water contitioner/water parameter questions

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BeavisMom62		#41	[-]
Posts: 95 (08/28/09 05:56:19) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	I didn't test water yet today, I will when I'm done working. I actually didnt stop the LIfeguard last night because I was thinking the same thing that you said. But again, you are right, stopping does usually only apply to antibiotics. And Im with you again, as I was writing this last night I was wondering if I should start an ER thread or not. I guess I should. Ok, not to be redundant, but about how much coral in each tank? I'm thinking like maybe a tablespoon or so in the 30 gal and a teaspoon in the 15? Does that sound about right or no? I know I can always take some out if the ph goes too high, but I would rather not have that happen in the first place, especially since they appear to have at least gotten used to the low ph.
Mattsmommy2		#42	[-]
Posts: 13346 (08/28/09 06:54:31) Administrator Fond of Fins Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Hey Judie, I can't answer your questions about the coral... I'll leave that between you and T. As for the health-related issues... here is our article on dropsy that lists the symptoms. However, depending on the severity of the swelling... this may be constipation. Are the raised scales confined to the tummy area, or it is more all over the fish's body? If it's confined to the tummy area, then I'd recommend fasting him/them (it won't hurt all of them actually), for 2-3 days and then follow up with some non-salted/deshelled pea. Hopefully, that will help. However, if the bloating/raised scales are all over the body... then I would isolate that particular fish and medicate with a combination of Maracyn with Maracyn 2 (together creates broad spec coverage) OR Kanaplex (daily half doses). You can also add some epsom salts per the article; there is actually a full treatment plan outlined in there. Regarding the other fish that may have the flex infection... you should also have a broad spec antibiotic (M/M2 or Kana) to treat the infection. As for removing the Lifeguard meds from the water, you can add some carbon temporarily to the filter (for a few hours) and then remove it again, and you can do a 30-40% waterchange prior to adding any antibiotics. You're right... with antibiotics, you should not skip any days and administer each dose at roughly the same time each day. If you have more questions treating them... I do suggest you starting an ER thread so it's easier to keep the topics separated. Hope they all get better!! Goldies are one of the only fish that have a good rate of success at beating dropsy... so all is not lost! Hopefully, they respond (if it is infact dropsy). Michele
BeavisMom62		#43	[-]
Posts: 96 (08/28/09 17:45:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	You know what? I guess because I was panicking and because the poor fish is so huge, I assumed that the raised scales were all over. But I just went and looked at her again and it IS just her tummy! I'm hoping its just constipation. I gave them peas last nite and only fasted them this morning and gave them just a little bit of dinner. But I guess I can start that over again and fast them for a few days. Thanks, Michele.[b] However, if the bloating/raised scales are all over the body... then I would isolate that particular fish and medicate with a combination of Maracyn with Maracyn 2 (together creates broad spec coverage) OR Kanaplex (daily half doses). You can also add some epsom salts per the article; there is actually a full treatment plan outlined in there. [/b] Michele, you mention the treatment plan mentioned in the article but the article (which I haven't checked out yet) is about dropsy, correct? So should I still use the treatment plan as you suggest if she is just constipated? I'm a little confused. I should probably use the Maracyn 2 (after I get Maracyn) to treat them both anyway, do you think? I've used the Lifeguard for, three, maybe four days now. I guess I"ll do it again tonite and tomorrow use the carbon, do a water change and get some Maracyn to use with the M2 and dose them. Sound good?
tetralina3		#44	[-]
Posts: 15833 (08/28/09 22:40:40) Mad Scientist Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	I think Michele meant to use the antibiotics if it does appear to be dropsy. If it might be constipation, then witholding food is the best first measure (hard to do with those imploring eyes but important). Then the pea after. The goal being to clear out the blockage a bit then let the roughage of the pea finish the job. Michele has used this process a lot and can comment further. It is really hard to say how much coral . . . the different types of coral disintegrate at such different rates. I think it would be safe to put 1 tablespoon in the 30 gallon and 1/2 tablespoon in the 15 gallon. Just my guesstimate. That might not be enough if it is slow disintegrating coral but you will see from the test readings. t
Mattsmommy2		#45	[-]
Posts: 13349 (08/29/09 07:18:31) Administrator Fond of Fins Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Yup! You and T got it! If it's just constipation... fast for 2-3 days and then give some pea. Look for poo and decreased swelling. If it hasn't resolved after the first round of fasting/pea... then do another round. If there is still no poo and the swelling hasn't lessened... you can do an epsom salts bath (outlined here). However, doing the epsom salts bath is stressful so we consider it a last resort. I might advise, though, to add a much lesser amount of epsom salts anyway, if the first round of fasting doesn't work (therefore, if you have to do another round of fasting... add 1/8 of a teaspoon of epsom salts per 5 gallons of water - this amount is not stressful and will encourage fluid being drawn out of the body). I wouldn't medicate the "constipated" fish at the moment unless it develops into dropsy, or we see other symptoms of bacterial disease. The fish with flex... I would start medicating asap... as the longer we wait... the infection can get harder to treat. Please do read through both articles: dropsy and flex so you understand the treatment plan for each. Keep us posted on how they're doing! Michele
BeavisMom62		#46	[-]
Posts: 99 (08/30/09 07:29:16) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Ok, I had to start an ER thread. The fish with either dropsy or constipation is getting worse and the one with the flex/fungus isn't any better.
Mattsmommy2		#47	[-]
Posts: 13365 (08/30/09 08:38:09) Administrator Fond of Fins Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Okay... we'll discuss their health-related issues there... and the water issues here. How does that sound to you (it'll make it easier for the mods in each forum to help)? Michele
BeavisMom62		#48	[-]
Posts: 105 (08/30/09 08:44:30) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Sure. That works for me Michele. I really appreciate your help today. I don't know what to do. Ok, as I mentioned in the ER post, but will repost here since it is a water issue, I added coral gravel to both tanks last night. Checked the ph this morning and the goldie tank has risen to 6.4 and the tropical tank hasn't changed, its 6.0. I guess it hasn't changed. I guess it would be hard to tell since it is at the lowest it goes. What should I do for the ph now? I also have high ammonia in the goldie tank at 1.0, nitrites are 0 and nitrates are 10. What should I do? I would imagine water changes, but at the moment I"m using antibiotics in the water. Would I lose the meds with a w/c? I would thnk so, right?
BeavisMom62		#49	[-]
Posts: 106 (08/30/09 09:07:07) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	I dont know if it makes any difference, but with the coral gravel - in the goldie tank I have it in a mesh bag in the filter and in the tropical tank it is just hanging on the back of the tank in a mesh bag, as it won't fit in the filter.
Mattsmommy2		#50	[-]
Posts: 13368 (08/30/09 09:27:27) Administrator Fond of Fins Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	I addressed the ammonia issue in the ER thread (it's possibly a bit related to the health issues)... we can leave the coral/pH issues here though... Michele
BeavisMom62		#51	[-]
Posts: 108 (08/30/09 10:01:29) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Ok, I checked the tropical tank and here are the parameters: ph 6.4 (it was 6.0, so should I remove the bag or take some coral out?), ammonia is .25, nitrite 0 and nitrate 10. I'm getting ready to do a w/c today. Any suggestions? Both tanks ph are at 6.4, so they are rising, but you guys have said to raise it slowly, only .2 to .3 a day, right? So how do I accomplish this? Oh, also, if the ph was becoming a problem for the fish, what should I look for? My ph used to be consistently 7.2 to 7.4 until I stopped using the EasyBalance and Nitraban stuff. Now it is all over the place. I really havent seen any ill effects of all this ph jumping, but I don't know what to look for. Ok, off to do a w/c! Thanks again for all of your help today Michele. I feel totally lost.
BeavisMom62		#52	[-]
Posts: 109 (08/30/09 12:18:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	I just checked the ph in both tanks and they hit 6.6. So I took a little scoop of coral out. Or should I take it all out for now? Although, I think this was probably due to the water changes that I just did, since my tap water ph is 7.2 (I think). I'll check again later and hopefully adjust the coral accordingly. This is going to be a balancing act, I see. Another question. How in the world do I clean my gravel? I use a gravel vac but if I were to clean the gravel as much as it needs, all the water in the tank would be gone! I've already learned the hard way not to change to much water in the tropical tank. May I ask another stupid question? Since it is the filter and media that contain most of the good bacteria, what is the harm in taking out the gravel and rinsing it out? Come on you guys! I'm expecting another totally common sense answer that I should have thought of but didn't! I know gravel contains some bacteria but the filter has more, correct? It just bothers me that in my tropical tank particularly, but also in the goldie tank, when I am vacuuming or even moving plants and stuff around, all this stuff comes flying out of the gravel! But by the time it settles down and the filter does its work, my water is crystal clear. But I just hate knowing all that crud is in there. Any suggestions?
ShellyB518		#53	[-]
Posts: 8255 (08/30/09 22:23:08) Administrator Smarty McFarty Pants Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Go ahead and leave some of the coral in the tank. Test tomorrow and see where your numbers are though, ok? Signs to look for if something is going on due to the pH is gasping at the surface of the water for air, lethargic, refusing to eat, laying on their side. So far, your pH swings aren't ideal but not bad either. Since these changes are happening over the entire 24 hour period and not all at once. You will want to clean 25% of the gravel during your weekly water change. I dig the gravel vac into the gravel and hold it there until you stop seeing the debris travel up the gravel vac then move to another place close by. Taking all the gravel out is going to kick up a lot of debris, remove some good guy bacteria and likely stress out your aqua-babies. Besides, the bonus to cycled tanks is less work so no sense in adding extra work. You can do some water changes mid-week if you feel that there is excess debris in the tanks.
tetralina3		#54	[-]
Posts: 15847 (08/31/09 02:52:45) Mad Scientist Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Shelly has given some great help regarding the coral and pH. I think some of the pH increase is due to waterchanges with your tapwater but time will tell. People often recommend to keep the coral or dolomite rocks in the filter and claim it works better that way. I am not sure if that it actually correct as I haven't checked it myself. I agree with Shelly that you can always do a partial change midweek just to focus on the gravel if you need. Keep in mind that a trick you can use is to pinch the tube so the water sucks up slower but almost as much crud goes up. So, you remove less water but almost as much junk. (One must know these things when one keeps two giant plecos aka the p**p factories.) Yes, it is just as you stated. Most of the bugs live in the filter but some live in the gravel. So, better to use a gravel siphon rather than rinsing it. t
BeavisMom62		#55	[-]
Posts: 111 (08/31/09 06:44:37) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Ok, I only took a little coral out of each tank last night and checked the ph this morning. The ph in the goldie tank is 6.8 and the tropical tank is 6.6. Not too bad, but I would like it a little higher. The only thing is I'm going to do a partial w/c in the goldie tank later today, which is going to raise the ph. So what do I do? I guess I'm going to add a little more coral to the tropical tank but what about the goldie tank? I think I already mentioned that I have the coral in the goldie tank IN the filter, but the tropical tank is under the filter. By that I mean under the filter overflow. So the water is flowing over the bag. I did have it just hanging on the back of the tank but everytime I would go near the tank there would be a puddle of water on the floor. Silly me, I kept looking for leaks and freaking out before I realized that the mesh bag was having a "wick" effect and absorbing water up the bag, over the edge of the tank and onto the floor! I think you must have been the one to give me the instructions on how to clean gravel before, Shelly. I used to just stir up the gravel, which obviously kicked up alot of gunk and made the water cloudy and took forever to clear. So I've been doing as you say but my gravel still seems pretty icky to me. Particularly in the tropical tank. I only siphon 30% in that tank because I've learned more than that is too shocking for the fish. I can do 50% in the goldie tank with no problem, so that gravel isn't as bad. I'll try the pinching the hose idea next time, T. Never thought of that. I wish I had room for giant plecos, but first I need to learn how to take care of these guys properly. Thanks for all the help you guys. I really appreciate your help and understanding. You guys always take the time to answer questions, dumb as they may be, without making me feel like a loser. I think I mentioned that I used to belong to another forum where one of the mods just made me feel like an idiot. It was her way or the highway and if you even questioned her all you got was "well, its your tank, do what you want", instead of discussing things and explaining the "why". I am grateful.
tetralina3		#56	[-]
Posts: 15865 (09/01/09 03:06:29) Mad Scientist Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	It is a pleasure to help people like you that are so dedicated to finding the optimal way to care for their fish. I would let the waterchange raise the pH in the goldie tank and just keep monitoring the pH to see if it stays up. In the tropical tank, perhaps add back a bit of coral. I have a feeling that you might need to clean a bit more of the gravel each week in the tropical tank.. The reason is that sometimes you really do have to do larger gravel cleans . . . it depends on how much crud is building up. Yes, there is a risk of disturbing the amount of bacteria that live in the gravel but having excess organics/crud is also not idea for the fish. So, I would err on the side of getting the junk out of the tank especially if it is enough to really cloud up the water a lot at waterchange time. BTW, if you use the pinch technique and are really careful placing the siphon, letting the rocks "dance inside" and drop down, moving to the next spot, repeat, you should be able to get a good cleaning without too many floaties. (Don't even ask how come I had to learn to avoid that problem . . . let's just say "garland" presents from my lovely plecos are better in the siphon than hanging around. . . Okay, it sounds like you have a good arrangement for both tanks regarding coral placement (now that it is not wicking into a pool outside!) where the coral is in running water. t
BeavisMom62		#57	[-]
Posts: 118 (09/02/09 04:14:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Ok, the ph seems to be holding pretty steady at 6.8 in both tanks. I have been doing partial w/c's in the goldie tank every day but not the tropical tank. Should I add a little more coral do you think? (Oh, I see you just said to do that in the tropical tank, T!). I will do that when I get home from work. What about the goldie tank?
ShellyB518		#58	[-]
Posts: 8266 (09/02/09 23:27:10) Administrator Smarty McFarty Pants Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	I'd be inclined to keep some coral in each tank until we get the pH's matching the tap water. What do you think about that, t? I agree with t about cleaning the gravel a bit more in the tropical tank. Having the extra crud may be complicating the pH issue so cleaning it out may help stabilize that pesky pH.
tetralina3		#59	[-]
Posts: 15888 (09/03/09 02:08:14) Mad Scientist Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Yuppers, I agree with the Queen of All Things Cycled and Fishlike, our amazing Shelly! (If that wasn't too long, I would suggest that the tads change your moniker . . . t
BeavisMom62		#60	[-]
Posts: 124 (09/03/09 04:05:27) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Sounds good to me, both of you. I keep trying to clean the gravel well in the tropical tank but I come close to taking out too much water before I get out much crud! I'll try the hose pinching technique this weekend. I just hope I am able, as I have a weakness problem with my hands. Also, I seem to have a bit of an algae problem in the tropical tank. Its not real bad, but worse than the goldie tank. I figured it is probably because of the heater in that tank. there isn't alot on the walls, mostly on the plants and stuff. I do clean the walls at every w/c so they aren't too bad but some of my plants are fuzzy and the decorations look dirty. Even when I rub them off, it grows back in a day. And I have four otos in there (not for cleaning purposes though, I just like them). Can I add any of those algae preparations to the tank? I'm afraid to since the otos do eat some of it and I do'nt know what is safe for the ADFs in there. I'll add some coral tonite and test the water and do a w/c tomorrow or Saturday.

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