Sherrie
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2manyfish |
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OK - I took out everthing but the bio wheel yesterday and filled the rest with foam. As far as water I'm on a well and I think i"m going to get some
dechlorined water from a water store today. The fish were on tap water in the classroom supplemented by some well water. They have been through lots of changes
lately. Do you think I should try another med and when should I start feeding him? It doesn't look like velvet. I also have a 5 gallon glass tank - should
I start over in that one with him? Also how do you do a 100% water change?
Sherrie |
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Mattsmommy2 |
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Hey Sherrie,
I'd leave him in the 3 gallon... and I as mentioned before... empty all the contents of the filter so that it doesn't try to cycle anymore. Removing the cartridge and adding fresh sponge will still encourage the tank to cycle (and actually make matter worse as you have even less of the good bacteria colony now)... and b/c this is just a hospital tank anyway (with unstable water params)... it's best to just not let it cycle at all, and let him be in super-pristine water so he can heal. Running the filter empty is just for aeration purposes only. Doing weekly 100% waterchanges involves removing the fish and emptying the water completely and thoroughly rinsing the tank, decorations and gravel, and refilling the tank with fresh, same temperature, dechlorinated water (preferably letting the water sit out first for a while so the tiny bubbles dissipate). In this case, monitoring for poo would be easier without any gravel (and it would make the 100% waterchanges that much easier). If he is passing poo and not bloated... then you can stop the fasting you started on Monday by feeding him a tiny piece of frozen/thawed/shelled pea tomorrow morning. As for checking for velvet, the "dusting" is sometimes hard to see so we also look at other symptoms that include lethargy, lack of appetite, clamped fins and possibly rubbing against objects in the tank. I'm hoping he gets better too, Sherrie... you're among people here who understand the attachment to our "wet pets", so your concern is far from silly around here... Michele *edited to clarify
Last Edited By: Mattsmommy2
07/01/09 12:18:52.
Edited 1 times.
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2manyfish |
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Maybe it is velvet - he is lethargic, sits on the bottom, sometimes upside down and his top and bottom fins are clamped. Althougth the whole thing started with
erriatic swimming.... He is not bloated and I don't think he's pooing. I was going to move him over to the 5 since there is not any gravel in there but
for now I'll leave him and when the meds are done I'll do the 100% change. Should I change meds? I know we get attached - I'm having a hard time
parting with my excess guppies since they will probably end u pas feeder fish..... Oh well.
Sherrie |
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Mattsmommy2 |
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Hey again, Sherrie,
Actually... I was hoping that you would do the 100% waterchange asap... we REALLY need to get that ammonia down to 0. 2.0 is just going to make him sicker, and counteract the meds (meaning any of the meds won't be as effective). If you did a 100% waterchange immediately (as well as remove ALL the filter media so you're just running the filter for aeration purposes, and remove the gravel)... you can redose the antibiotic, since all of the med is being removed. I spoke with Ash... you should be able to use an antiparasitic med (Maracide or RidIch+) to treat the suspected velvet alongside the Furan 2 without any interaction. Do a complete round of Furan 2 without skipping any days. It's best to dose at the same time each dosing day (the meds can also be dosed together at the same time although RI+ is dosed daily). It sounds like F2 is administered every 48hrs... so make sure you time your waterchanges to be done right before a dosing is due. Use the Maracide or RI+ (antiparasitic) for a minimum of 10 days, or 3 days past the last of the symptoms have disappeared. Good luck! Michele |
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2manyfish |
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Here we go again! I did the 100% water change - I hate to stress him out but I did it. I will redose the Furan 2 in a minute and start the other tomorrow. The
Furan 2 I have says every 24 hours for 4 days..... I did treat the water with stress coat before adding it to the rinsed out tank. I will also feed part of a
pea tomorrow am and see how that goes. I also have an airstone in the tank. Wish the best for Mr. Mollie.....
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tetralina3 |
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Did you keep the filter running or are you operating it as a waterchange tank now?
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2manyfish |
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I did take everything out of the filter - water is running through the plastic filter assembly. I also have an airstone in there. I took the gravel out and
just left one plant. I tried a big of a pea this am and he did not eat it - I just put in a bit of an alge wafer and we'll see. he spends most of his time
laying on his side now and trying to swim to the surface and not making it. His tail seems to go down now, not up. I went to teh store w/o my notes and got
maracyn-two instead of maracide. I also have ick away. Should I go back to the store and get maracide or ridich+. Also how often do I change the water now (and
how much)?
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ShellyB518 |
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I'd do a 25% water change daily, right before the medication. Test for ammonia before the water change and if there is any measurable ammonia then a 100%
water change is in order. Sending tons of good thoughts!
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Mattsmommy2 |
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Hey Sherrie,
Maracyn 2 is an antbiotic. Maracide is an antiparasitic. The Maracyn 2 is a good antibiotic to have on hand... so I'd recommend keeping it. But it would be beneficial to still add the antiparasitic per the dropsy article... so hopefully, it isn't a big hike to the fish store for you. Just as a side note... don't use Maracyn 2 along side the Furan 2 b/c they are both antibiotics (you don't want to double dose). Keeping good thoughts for the little fella... Michele |
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2manyfish |
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From where I live it's a hike to the fish store so it won't be until tomorrow - anybody know California?. My biggest worry now is he isn't eating
or pooing. I have tried peas, alge wafers and I hate to admit it, but livebearer food (Nutrafin Max). What else should I try? He just lays on the bottom of the
tank on his side until he sees me and then he does his best to swim around. Water perameters are all good except the heater is not doing as much as I'd
like (76% F). I'm going to put another in there and see how it goes tomorrow when I'll be here to monitor it.
thanks - sherrie |
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Mattsmommy2 |
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When you go to the fish store... try to get some frozen bloodworms. Most fish relish them! However, being that he is not eating... and has possibly never had
them before... may not realize it's food. But you could try... and they're less constipating. You may not be seeing any poo b/c he hasn't eaten
(and may have missed it before you started the sporadic fasting). If you offer the bloodworms... just offer 1 at each feeding (2-3 feedings per day) for now.
Has the pineconing gotten worse? How many days has he been on the Furan-2 now? If he has done the full course (4 days, right?)... then switch over to Maracyn2 and use alongside the Maracide you get today. Plain Maracyn can also be added (plain Maracyn with M2 creates broad spectrum bacterial coverage)... and are safe to use together. Maracide (the antiparasitic med) is one of the more "gentler" ones on the market and can be used with the antibiotics. Keep us posted, Sherrie! Michele |
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2manyfish |
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This is day 4 for the furan-2. I'll get the marcide, and some maracyn and start the marcide tonight and the maracyn and marcyn2 tomorrow. Does that sound
right. He never was pineconing. Just keeping his fins down (top and bottom fins) and laying on the bottom of the tank on his side. When he sees me or I turn
the room light on (I'm trying to keep it dark for him) he tries to move around with limited success...... Part of me feels if he ate something he would
gain some strenght to fight this thing. Is it possible to force/hand feed a fish?????
Sherrie |
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aquila |
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Your med plan sounds fine. You can do water changes before dosing if you wish. MI and II will make the water a bit yellow and cloudy - this is normal and not
harmful.
How long has he not been eating? Sadly, lack of interest in food is generally a poor sign. I wouldn't suggest force-feeding him, though; if his body is under so much stress from an illness, it's likely that his gastrointestinal system is not a priority and has been pretty much shut down (so food would either not get digested, or just be an extra stress). ~Ash |
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2manyfish |
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I ended up with the RidIch+ instead cause that's what the store I made it to had. I tried bloodworms and no interest (but I also wonder if it's a lack
of strength to be able to get to the food). I 'm not sure he has much control over where he actually goes. he's on the bottom of the tank unless he
sees me or the light goes on, etc. i'm not sure exactly how long it's been since he's not been eating but I know it's been a while
Sherrie |
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tetralina3 |
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The Rid-ich is instead of the Maracide, right? Do keep an eye on the fish for a bit after dosing the Rid-Ich. Then if you see any adverse reaction
(suddenly lethargic at the bottom or the opposite- darting around or staying at surface with gills moving) then you know you might need to dilute the
medication by a little waterchange. Just something I mention to everyone that is using Rid-Ich although it doesn't happen very often.
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Mattsmommy2 |
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RidIch+ should be fine, Sherrie. T's recommendations are a precaution as it is a bit stronger than Maracide. As well... with RI+, each dose needs to
be preceeded with a 25% waterchange (this is per the directions on the bottle itself).
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2manyfish |
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Water is OK - nitrites 0, ammonia 0, ph 6.8. He was already lethargic so the RI+ didn't change that behavior. He just lays on the bottom on his side and
swims around a bit (but not with any real control) when I walk in. My plan was to give all three meds tonight after a water change. Let me know if I should do
one in the am and 2 in the pm with 2 water changes....
should I end it for him? not sure I can do it but thought i should ask.... f |
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Mattsmommy2 |
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Hey Sherrie,
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tetralina3 |
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*sending more good thoughts*
t |
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2manyfish |
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He is still with me but losing strengh. He has trouble moving around much but still will at times. I think he is trying to get to the food so I'll give it
a bit longer. If you tihink he's not suffering I'll let nature take it's course. As far as meds I ended up giving him Ridich+ and Maracyn together
last night. I wasn's sure about giving 3 meds at once...
Thanks for listening to me and giving advice - most do not understand attachment to fish |
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