Ready, set, to start fishless cycling

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2bcain	Ready, set, to start fishless cycling	Lead	[-]
Posts: 119 (02/16/09 21:42:30) Honey just chuckles Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Tags : None Hi Everybody, Shelly & T, I think i have everything needed to get started on the fishless cycling. i bought a 10 gal. tank, divider, 20 mini AquaClear filter, 10 lb. gravel, clear ammonia, but, i may need to buy another thermometer for the new tank. Also, i want to add live plants later or do they need to added at the beginning of the cycle? Now, i need to decide whether or not straight tap water should be used, or.... really i need your opinion. This is such a humbling feeling, not knowing anything at all. Kinda feels like i'm floating in space. Can be fun.......but i don't know how to push off. I have finally learned, lol the only way to get safe water for the boys, is to filter! Thank You all so much. Cheryl
pegzee		#1	[-]
Posts: 744 (02/17/09 07:31:39) True-Blue LFS Extraordinaire Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Hi Cheryl. Good luck with the cycling. Even though the ammonia is clear, make sure there are NO other additives such as surfactants etc.
Uyek		#2	[-]
Posts: 258 (02/17/09 08:53:19) Superb Sentry Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	I cannot offer much guidance but I wanted to pipe in with encouragement. I made it through one fishless cycling and entirely because of the good and timely advice that was offered up so readily here. Really!! I could not have done it without all of the help of the people who responded here. *You are in good hands!*
Mattsmommy2		#3	[-]
Posts: 10739 (02/17/09 16:39:55) Administrator Fond of Fins Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Hey Cheryl.... you'll do fine... have a read through our cycling article and our fishless cycling article... even if it doesn't make sense to you right now... it will once you're going through the process... you'll go... oh yeah... And yes... as Pegzee suggested... make sure the ammonia is "pure"... no surfactants, additives or fragrances other than water. The purpose of you going through this is so you can use your tap water... so unless Shelly or T have other ideas... use your tap! Michele
ShellyB518		#4	[-]
Posts: 7148 (02/17/09 21:01:55) Administrator Smarty McFarty Pants Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	With your high nitrates from the tap, I have to recommend continuing with the bottled water. You will actually end up using less water than the 100% water changes you were using before. I would add the plants after the cycle. Not a big deal but it would probably be my preference. Ammonia can be tough on them. Your not floating in space, we got your back (kinda like the Verizon commercials-we are the people right behind you, k?) So, to push off-ready? -Fill the tank with your substrate and decorations and add the water (dechlorinate it-not because of the chlorine at this point but more for heavy metals) -Add your filter and heater, let the heater get used to the water for a 1/2 hour or so then you can turn them on. Make sure the carbon and anything in the filter media (the cartridge, filter floss, the stuff inside the filter cavity) is removed as it may affect the cycle or mess with the test results. Heat the water up to about 80 degrees. -Test the pH of the tank. -Once the temp is up and stable then add 3-5 drops of ammonia per gallon to the tank. Wait about an hour and test, you will want to get the ammonia level to about 4-5ppm. Underdosing ammonia on this step is better than overdosing. -Then wait. You can test your ammonia every few days to start with then you will start to see it dropping. You can definitely post your ammonia and pH test results at any time and this helps us see the trends in your tank. Let the games begin!!!
tetralina3		#5	[-]
Posts: 13393 (02/18/09 04:17:19) Mad Scientist Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Woot! Beam us up, Scotty, we are ready for a trip into bacterialand. We are all right here with you . . . fire away any questions, big or small, and we will all help you grow a nice, happy, family of biobugs! t
2bcain		#6	[-]
Posts: 121 (02/18/09 11:59:37) Honey just chuckles Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Hi Everybody, Thank You ALL so very much for the encouragement and kindness. For the ammonia, it says, 'clear'. It doesn't say what the ingrediants are. I shook it, and there are NO foamies or bubbles of any kind. Just plain ol' water bubbles. Just a few questions and clairifications - Does the gravel need a certain depth in order for the biobugs to survive? I have not yet put it into the new tank. It is a 10 lb. bag, cleaned it, and it all fits into one of my 1 gal. bowls setting in dechlorinated water. In the 10 gal. tank i'm guessing it will spread pretty thin. Opinions? The tank divider is a plastic flow-through netting, w/aqua marine, clip on sliders. My husband thought getting two of these might help the boys from flaring so much at each other, and an extra protective barrier from each other. Also, the intake tube of the filter could set inbetween the nettings and that would protect the boys from getting their fins sucked into it! I really liked the idea of sewing java moss onto the nettings as a barrier. i read that in another thread. Right now, i don't have any decorations to put into the new tank. Can these be added in a couple weeks, or are they something that need to be added from the beginning? Shelly, You mentioned 'them' when talking about the heaters. I only have one, extra, heater, a Visatherm 25. I may need to get a larger one and use it. Also, where in the tank would be the best place to put the heater? With adding the ammonia, for measuring 5ppm, that's going to be hard to guesstimate as my little test card reads, 0ppm and then jumps to 0.25ppm. Suggestions? Lastly, i'm not suppose to add the foam filter, carbon. or the bioMax insert, into the filter? So, the filter is suppose to run empty? I will not start anything with the new tank, until your responses. I'll get some bottled water to fill the tank with, and dechlornate with Prime. I do apologize. I thought i was ready,and set, to get launching on this. I just want to do this the right way. Thank you. Cheryl
2bcain		#7	[-]
Posts: 122 (02/18/09 12:03:53) Honey just chuckles Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Michele, Yes, i have read the article on fishless cycling, & cycling. I will need to read it again, and again, throughout this process, because i did say, DOH!!! what does this all mean?? lol. Cheryl
2bcain		#8	[-]
Posts: 123 (02/18/09 12:07:33) Honey just chuckles Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Hey Everybody, NEVER MIND on the ammonia reading issue. I GET IT, now. A little slow, but sure. The ammonia reading needs to read......0.50. GOT IT!! Cheryl
Uyek		#9	[-]
Posts: 263 (02/18/09 13:00:12) Superb Sentry Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	(Again, I'm no help, but I wanted to pipe in and say that I am already having so much fun following along. I am sure I will learn lots besides but it's fun to get in at the beginning and see how things progress.) Good luck, Cheryl! It's all gonna be worth it!
2bcain		#10	[-]
Posts: 126 (02/18/09 15:03:53) Honey just chuckles Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	-Hi Uyek, Nice to have you on board! You have already been very kind and encouraging, i consider that being helpful. (: I've been on the betta forum since Nov. of 08'. It started with fin issues on one of my bettaboys, and then issues on water, water, water!!! The water where i live is absolutely nasty! I totally agree with you, that FnF is the place to get the best info and help. The ladies are soo well knowledged, helpful, compassionate, kind.........i could go on and on!!! They are the best ever. Hope you have fun on this journey! Cheryl
ShellyB518		#11	[-]
Posts: 7158 (02/19/09 00:21:39) Administrator Smarty McFarty Pants Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Before adding the ammonia, I would call the company. I had the same thing, it said clear, it didn't foam, but the ingredients were listed and surfactants were added. Just to be sure I would call because doing all this work just to have to nuke the tank is very disheartening (been there!) Gravel: if you are planning on a planted tank the gravel needs to be at least 1.5 inches deep for the plants to stay rooted. Biobugs like the filter better because of the extra oxygen. Divider: you will want to block their view from each other to keep them from getting stressed. I would suggest starting a thread in the betta forum to see what others have done for this issue. Decorations: you can anytime you want to Heater: one is fine, I was thinking of the other 2 you have (doh it was late-I was tired) I like having the heater close to the filter, this way it disperses the heat evenly. Filter: Preferred filter media that I like are filter foam/sponges and BioMax. The white or blue filter floss is ok but it doesn't last as long so I don't use it anymore. You want to avoid carbon and any type of ammonia inhibiting items like Ammo-Lock or zeolite. Ammonia: You want to get the ammonia up to 5.0ppm not .5ppm.
tetralina3		#12	[-]
Posts: 13424 (02/19/09 03:57:08) Mad Scientist Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Grrrrrrreat info you guys! Yes, I would give the company a quick call. They should have a website . . . Uyek, you can be lots of help! You have a fishless tiara and are certified . . . don't hesitate to add in tips and tidbits here! t
2bcain		#13	[-]
Posts: 128 (02/19/09 11:01:50) Honey just chuckles Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Hi Everybody, And Thanks for all the info.! I'll check online today regarding the ammonia, or call. Don't want to make any mistakes that can be avoided. Silly question - 10lb. bag of gravel. It was on the stores shelf right next to the type of gravel that is in their tanks now. It looked the same color and all. Started the rinsing process and OH-ME-GOSH!!! I have probably spent 3-4 hours cleaning this stuff. What started as a brown colored gravel, is now blk & white pebbles! (road side gravel)lol It is called 'polished pebbles'. Anybody ever use this? It was a red clay like dust that just keeps coming off. I have it in the tank, and added 3 gals. of water and the water has stayed clear. Also, i added some left over gravel that i had from the bettas, so there is now a good depth of about 1.5 inches. I changed my mind as far as a planted tank - i think i'll mostly use silk or plastic. Got to keep it simple!! I'll put some java moss and ferns in for the boys though. Keeping the boys from seeing each other in the new tank will be a challenge, but i'm looking forward to it. Thanks Ya'll Cheryl
ShellyB518		#14	[-]
Posts: 7168 (02/19/09 18:42:33) Administrator Smarty McFarty Pants Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Since the gravel is already in the tank I would recommend testing the pH just to make sure the gravel won't affect it. As far as plants go, you can always change your mind later down the road if you want to but keeping it simple right now sounds perfect! I agree with t, Uyek please feel more than welcome to add your experience and knowledge anytime! You earned it!!!
2bcain		#15	[-]
Posts: 130 (02/19/09 21:33:47) Honey just chuckles Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Hi Everybody, I feel so terrible. It's going to take another week or so before i can start the cycling process. I'm ordering a heater online and it will take about a week to arrive. I jumped the gun on this one and Iam so sorry. Shelly & T, I'm supposed to get some info by mail, regarding the bottled water that i've been using in the boys tanks. They're sending out their latest test reports on the water. I'm looking online for more info regarding, 'ozone and micron filtration' the bottled water process. I know you said that we shouldn't use the tap water. What if we do a 50/50 - tap/RO mix? I have 4 gals. i'm testing now. PH 7.8 - ammonia 0 - trItes 0 - trAtes 8 - GH 7 drops of API - KH 5 drops. 100%pure tap water is PH 8.0 - ammonia 0 - trItes 0 - trAtes 18 - GH 11 drops - KH 7 drops. Just a tad better than last years readings. Not much! I'll come back here to post just as soon as the heater arrives. Thank You all so much. Cheryl
2bcain		#16	[-]
Posts: 131 (02/19/09 21:36:55) Honey just chuckles Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	PS - Checked the 'clear ammonia' online today and it says no detergents added. Cheryl
tetralina3		#17	[-]
Posts: 13450 (02/20/09 03:42:30) Mad Scientist Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	H m m m . . . it could still have other additives like surfactants? Did it say specifically that it is only ammonia and water? Could you email the company and ask the ingredients (if they don't have a phone number). Don't worry at all about delaying the process. Everything in its own time. After all, the motto of fishless cycling is: "Patience is a virtue and virtues are rewarded." so even a delay fits in with the theme. Yes, you definitely don't want to use pure tapwater at nitrates of 18. The pH only drops a bit with a 50% mix yet the nitrates go down 50%. Interesting, huh? Shelly et al, what do you think about using water with nitrates of 8 in the tank? I think it would be okay if there were some plant in there . . . some java moss would be great as it grows fast, is low light, easy to maintain . . . That is so funny! Gravel that started out brown became black and white. Gee. At least it has stopped changing the water colour now. Do keep an eye on your pH just to see what happens. t
tetralina3		#18	[-]
Posts: 13451 (02/20/09 03:43:46) Mad Scientist Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	BTW, please don't drink your tapwater with nitrates of 18, okay? And if you have any friends that might get pregnant, definitely steer them away from it. t
2bcain		#19	[-]
Posts: 133 (02/20/09 10:03:26) Honey just chuckles Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Hi Everybody, Hey T, Thanks, we don't drink our tap water, anymore, and i like letting others know how bad the citys water is. I was unaware until i started testing it for the bettas! I'll continue to test the PH to see if it stays stable with the blk/white gravel. As for now, that 4 gal. mix of 50/50 is in the tank with the gravel. Weird is that there is not a 'true' color reading for the PH on the 50/50 water mix. It is somewhere 7.8-ish color, towards 8.0, maybe. It also reads a very dark blue, 7.6. With the KH & GH where they are, i don't think the PH could be that low. Opinions? Honestly i don't know what 'surfactant' is. Would ya'll give some names of ammonia products that have been used and are known to be pure/clear. This has me a little nervous. Thank you so muchj Cheryl
Uyek		#20	[-]
Posts: 273 (02/20/09 10:27:00) Superb Sentry Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	2bcain wrote: ... I'm ordering a heater online and it will take about a week to arrive. My records aren't thorough enough to confirm this but I could swear that the last time I cycled the tank, I started with my heater turned really low, essentially off (I had difficulty reading its dial correctly ). Shelly, T., What would you recommend? Waiting and starting with the heater or going ahead without it? I think you told me that the heat helps and speeds things along but is it a deal breaker?

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Ready, set, to start fishless cycling

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